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Joy: As you know at Difference we spend quite a bit of time thinking about relationships, what it means to be community, and the places where we might need to reconcile with one another. So, the question I want to pose to you is: Why are the experiences of those who are disabled and those who are neurodivergent something that we might want to talk about as part of that wider conversation? As part of the conversation around reconciliation and the church?
John: It’s not like we’re talking about bringing people into anything. The body of Christ already exists as a holistic whole in which people with disabilities, people with neurodiversity, black, white, whatever you are, you are already part of that. The problem comes when we create categories that separate us in the midst of that.
A key thing in terms of reconciliation for me, would be about recognising that. We’re not trying to draw in people who are outside, we’re actually trying to live faithfully into what the body of Christ actually means, into what it actually looks like. So that fragmentation is something to do with the way we’ve misunderstood church. We’ve become unaware of aspects of the body of Christ.
Joy: Where do you think in the church we might not value those differences and what are some of the ways we can respond to that?
John: Well, you can’t know what you can’t know. So, I think one of the challenges is for us to become aware. I saw a great example of dealing with that in a church I visited in Vancouver recently. They have a preaching team, and each week they preach their sermon to this team before preaching it on Sunday. They were thinking of adding someone with a mental health challenge or a disability into this team so that they could become aware of the way particular things being said could raise particular issues with those who are going through particular experiences or seeing the world differently. Most people get their learning, their teaching, sometimes even their pastoral care through the sermons on a Sunday. It’s a profoundly important, shaping and formational thing. Beginning to do things like that, you become aware of things you may not have noticed before.
The second thing which I think we should be thinking about is around discipleship. In [choosing this as the focus] a different set of questions present themselves: What does it mean to have this particular mode of neurodiversity, to be a disciple, with a vocation and a call within this current congregation and beyond? What does that mean for us as a whole?
Using discipleship and vocation as a centre for thinking about what a community of belonging looks like begins to bring other possibilities to the fore rather than just the mechanics of ‘we have to make adjustments.’
Joy: Thank you John – that’s so encouraging, and just what we’re trying to do with this project. It also fits so well with our central habit of ‘curiosity,’ moving beyond our assumptions to ask questions, and our habit of presence, really working on being with one another.
We have a third habit as you know, reimagining. I’d love to ask you a question around that: With all of our differences, all of our neurodiversity and all of our disabilities (or otherwise) how could we reimagine church? How could it that truly is a place of belonging?
John: Well, it would look like us all being friends.
The sad truth is that churches are not always safe places, they’re not always good places to reveal your vulnerability. They’re not always as welcoming as they proclaim themselves to be. I think we need to begin with an acknowledgment that that’s the case.
I think though that -for me- it’s to do with the beatitudes, taking Jesus’s teaching in the beatitudes seriously, not as a series of morals we need to love up to but as worlds we need to live into. Do you know Grant Mcaskill?
Joy: Yes, he’s been a very helpful sounding board for this project in fact![1]
John: Great! Grant talks about the beatitudes [in Matthew 5/Luke 6] as world building texts. By that he means that if you tell a story you usually get a beginning, middle and an end, then you get a nice ethical, moral tale at the end or a conclusion. The beatitudes don’t do that – they open up worlds. Within that world which is opened up, those who are going through grief, people who are lost, people who are marginalised for whatever reason suddenly become the centre of the kingdom of God. And, who’s in the centre of that? Jesus.
The beatitudes will tell you something of who Jesus is, how he lives and what he calls the church to be.
Often when it comes to the church we have a real theology of glory. We like loud noise, we like competitiveness. We want to get thousands of people into our churches. But the content of discipleship which Jesus lays out quite clearly in the beatitudes is very different. It’s much slower, it’s much gentler, it’s a very different way of being in the world. You can fill your church with thousands of people, that’s great! But better to fill the church with people who live into the beatitudes because I think that’s where the witness comes from
Joy: What do you think are ways that we can engage or listen? If someone’s reading this, and they’re thinking ‘this sounds great, but I don’t know how to listen, I’m scared of messing it up, getting it wrong.’
John: Well that’s called human communication! The problem is, if you’re in contact with someone who has a mental health challenge, or a certain type of disability you already approach that encounter with a particular set of assumptions about what you think you’re going to find. The social science research, all of it says the best way to get over stigma is proximity, coming into contact with the people that you’re wary about.
In any conversation you make a mistake, so I think courage is part of it. The courage to accept that you might get it wrong, and you might be rejected, but you’re called to do the same thing, offer Christ like friendship.
Professor John Swinton is an eminent practical theologian, which he defines as “Critical, theological reflection on the practices of the Church as they interact with the practices of the world, with a view to ensuring and enabling faithful participation in God’s redemptive practices in, and for the world.” (John Swinton and Harriet Mowat, Practical Theology and Qualitative Research (London: SCM, 2006)).
He has taught at the University of Aberdeen for nearly 30 years, specialising in theology around mental health and disability. The University of Aberdeen has a rich history in the intersection between disability, neurodivergence and theology, which you can read more about at the links below.
Dr Joy Allan is project lead for Dynamis (the disability/neurodivergence guidance of which this article forms a part) and a Practical Theologian whose MA thesis (on Disability Theology) and PhD thesis (on mental health theology) were under Professor Swinton. Yet somehow (they often joke) they are still friends! The staff and networks which come from the University of Aberdeen have been an invaluable voice and sounding board for Dynamis and we are deeply grateful to them.
